[US 15k champs – Fam broke away and got caught with 200m to go but re-kicked for the win.]
I saved a lot of energy for that final bridge. I figured if I was in front with a mile to go, there was no one gonna catch me. I’ve done a tempo workout in Flagstaff at altitude and the last mile was downhill. I did it in 4:07. So I thought there is no way these guys are gonna catch me. I didn’t even bother to look back. I just figured I run my own race, my own pace, whatever feels comfortable. So I just relaxed and probably relaxed too much and let him catch up. I didn’t know he was there until he passed me. I didn’t see his number and thought he’s just someone who jumped the fence like a fan or something. Then I saw his number and though ‘shit, the guy is in the race!’ Well, it made it interesting.
Was that 15k your longest race?
Close to longest. I did a 10 mile US champs one year. But I train for the 15k.
Are you planning to go longer?
Yeah. Every distance runner thinks about it. I thought about it. So this year I trained to see how I react to the training, to see if I’d like to do it. And I reacted really well, I was surprised. I did really long runs.
How long?
20 miles and more. Fast stuff. Hilly. I did high mileage weeks, higher than I have ever done. Back to back weeks. I kinda paid for it. Some of the stuff were just experimentation to see where my limits were, how hard I could go before I break down. Sometimes you have to do that to find out. A lot of people do VO2max tests and things like that. I like to do trial and error to really physically feel my limitations. Especially for the marathon. So I tested that a lot. My cross country race earlier this year hurt because of it. I did Nationals but only got 20th place or something. Really bad race. But I wasn’t surprised. I expected that to happen. Some people might have thought that I am out of shape but I said ‘Look, I’m in good shape. I might have overtrained a little bit. Watch and see what happens in Jacksonville.’
So, marathon already this year?
Maybe this year, maybe next year. I haven’t decided yet.
How old are you now?
30. Right there. Sharp. Feel better than I ever felt. Kinda fast. Strong. I have so much experience and years of training in me. Maybe I should race somewhere fast first?
No, NYC!
Really?
Best race. Do your second one fast. You gonna improve anyway from your first marathon.
You never know. My first 10k is my fastest still. I didn’t know what I was doing. I ran 27:39 in Berkeley (CA) two weeks ago [two seconds slower than PR] but it wasn’t that good conditions.
Have you always done really long runs or what was your longest when you concentrated on the steeple?
I’ve always been a low milage guy. I only had to do like 50/60 miles a week and I respond really well to training. I do a lot of high intensity workouts, very quality stuff which is why I tried out that high milage stuff. But if you don’t have to do high milage, why do it?
I trained with the Irish steeple champion two years ago and he ran a 2 hour long run every Sunday.
I used to take Sundays off! [laughs] I never told my coach. When I graduated, I took it a little more seriously and did like a 10 mile run on Sunday but not overly long stuff. So about an hour maybe. And I would run so hard in my workouts, a lot of times I could hardly run the next day cause I run harder in the workout than in the race.
What’s your favourite workout?
I have a favourite place to run. It’s the hardest run that I ever do. It’s at altitude and I do it as a time trial. Everytime I run it, I have to fall on my knees. [laughs] I can’t stand for a few minutes, am totally exhausted. I do it by myself. No one is there to see it. Nobody knows the times on that course because nobody ever has run it, I am the only one who has. I only compare to myself. I try to keep it a secret. Some people might know about it now. It’s about 6 miles long. Very hilly. Very hilly. Really challenging. First mile is straight uphill. I usually run the first mile as if it is the last mile. [laughs]
So altitude training works for you?
Yeah but I train a little differently at altitude than a lot of people. Talking to Abdi, he likes to do the longer runs. I think everybody is different and has to train their own way. I just like being in that environment in Flagstaff. I can get really focused there which I think is the biggest factor there for me.
Do you feel your top end speed lacks due to altitude training?
When I ran a 13:11 5k in 2007, I came straight down from altitude. I felt slow and sluggish during the first part of the race and hung at the back. When we got to two miles, everyone started slowing down but I kept that pace. And I felt great! So I started really moving during that last mile. The other guys where just sitting on me the last mile. They waited until 200m to kick. And I tried to kick but I just couldn’t kick. I just didn’t have the turnover. I knew that if I had done some speedtraining, I could have responded.
Talking about turnover: are you doing any drills?
To have a kick, you need to do speed training. But you also need strength which you get from doing intervals like 10*400 with a short rest. You are fatigued but you still have that leg turnover and get used to that faster rhythm. And drills contribute to the flexibility you need to achieve a proper turnover.
Are you doing any cross training?
I swim sometimes.
So how about doing a triathlon?
I thought about it because I am a pretty decent swimmer.
Any times?
I don’t do long stuff. I just hold my breath and swim the whole length of the pool. Wait 30 seconds and then do it again. I’ve been doing that for a while. I can do it now with 10 seconds break.
How’s your cycling?
I never cycled.
You would probably make a good climber.
It’s different muscle groups. So different training. You have to really stop running. Maybe when I retire I try an Ironman.
Talking about retirement: do you have any plans what to do after running?
If you want to keep racing really well, you can’t have any plans. It has to be running. You can’t be already thinking about what you are doing two years down the road.
Here’s a secret: Abdi says he’s gonna be a fashion designer.
[laughs]
So he has plans which means you are gonna beat him as he already lost some focus.
I mean, you can have plans but you can’t think about it. Running is the complete opposite of what you are supposed to be in the real world. If you bring anything else into the picture, it’s gonna take away from your running. I have ideas of what I am gonna do but I’m not really thinking about it.
Would you run recreationally as a 9-5 jobber?
I have friends that stopped running after college. Their whole life falls apart. You lose that part of you. They get bigger. But especially psychologically: no endorphins, no immediate reward of a PR or even a good run. You don’t have the energy you used to have. And I see how their lives kind of deteriorate.
Well, PRs are nice and fine but once you are, say 40, PR land is over.
You can still have AG goals or just the excitement of getting into a race once a month. If you take that out, it’s big. I don’t think I could stop. I’d have to find something to replace it, like martial arts or something like that. For me, maybe it would be painting.
Painting, really?
I’ve been painting for a long time. I’ve stopped painting recently because I put so much focus and energy in it and it is such an emotional thing which takes away from my running.
What kind of painting?
Abstract painting.
So you like the Museum of Modern Art across the street?
Yeah, definitely. I’m going tomorrow night. I probably just hang out there for a couple of hours.
Modern Art – you gotta be here in NYC [he’s born and raised in Long Island but lived for quite a while on the Upper East Side].
That’s the one thing I miss about NY. More than anything else. Culture in general, music.
What kind of music?
Jane’s Addiction is one of my favourite bands and they are on tour right now. They’re coming to New Jersey and New York but I can’t go because I will be training. Always happens. It drives me crazy!
I’d say enjoy it while it lasts. Another five years…
…but Jane’s Addiction might not be together then! They broke up in 1991 and now finally have the original members back together after 18 years so you can’t miss it! Maybe I can do it in August in Chicago.
That’s kinda the music I like, rock.
Change of topic: do you follow a particular diet?
Now I do. I used to have a really bad diet. Mary Wittenberg just asked me about it. [laughs] I used to eat pizza every day for lunch.
Pizza is not bad. It’s got protein, carbs…
But not every day! You can’t only eat pizza. I wasn’t eating any vegetables, any meat. I once had pizza everyday. Breakfast, lunch, dinner. Two weeks. Every day.
How did your digestive system handle that?
I was fine. I was still running. I was rock 'n' rolling.
At the Universiade in China 2001, I only ate McDonald’s because I didn’t like the food at the cafeteria. That’s how bad my diet was.
Was weight ever an issue for you?
No. I have an incredible metabolism. I lose weight when I stop running. I drop to like 125lbs. I’m just naturally a thin guy.
Talking about skinny: how’s that with getting laid?
[laughs] I never had any problems. When you are a good athlete and you get attention for winning, that gets you more attention than anything else. If you are a good athlete, you are a good athlete, you know. And that translates… [laughs]
I’ve been with my wife for ten years now. We had a long distance relationship for six years. If you wanna be a good runner, you have to travel to a lot of races, you have to go to high altitude for four weeks. But she believed in me.
Is she running as well?
Yeah but she just runs for fun. She’s pretty fast.
Do you run together sometimes?
Almost every morning. She’s always a half step in front of me. [laughs] Even if I slow down, she will also slow down but she will always stay a step ahead.
I hear you. Been there. They’re all the same.
Back to racing: for most runners a 10k starts to really hurt at 6/7k.
That’s when the race starts.
How do you manage that?
A 10k is really just energy maintenance. You are trying to run as fast as you can without overexerting energy. You only keep like a little extra for the final push.
Two weeks ago [in Berkeley] we had a pacemaker. He dropped out at 5k and no one wanted to take it. So I had to because I wanted to run a good time.
But this Saturday it’s about winning.
Yeah but there’s a good time bonus. 20,000$ for course record.
Ritz’s 28:08 two years ago.
All by himself. You gotta really attack if you want that record.
Do you think people will look at each other or is everyone going for it?
It’s always tactical at the beginning.
You know the course. If guys attack at Harlem hill, are you going with them at any cost?
I know the course so well, I know where you can make ground. I’m a downhill runner. Maybe I should run Boston. [laughs]
I did a 10k in the park some years ago in the winter. Westchester TC had some good runners in it, Olympic qualifiers. I just started getting into shape, wanted to do it for fun. I had sweatpants on, a long-sleeved collarshirt. The Westchester guys took off. I let them go as I know this course and knew what pace to run and stayed like five seconds behind them. I knew exactly where they are coming back to me. I won’t tell you were!
Ok, on Saturday!
We got to that part of the course and sure enough they came back. I ended up winning the race by less than a second. And he was a 27:13/13:04 guy. Beat him in sweatpants because I knew the course well enough!
Let’s go back to nutrition. How do you manage eating during the day before a track race at night?
I eat steak before every race! [laughs] I can eat a full meal 30 mins. before a race. That’s why I think I could be a good marathoner. I could eat a slice of pizza in the middle of the race.
In college, ten minutes before a workout, I had a big pot of maccaroni and cheese. Sometimes I would drink a can of soda before the workout to toughen up my stomach.
I just had one problem which was at that 10 mile race I did in 2006. I ate a big greasy cheeseburger with onion rings and had a chocolate shake the night before the race. 30 mins. later I did my pre race run and got that side stitch and it was still there the next day. I tried to mentally block it out. But it got so bad I dropped out at three miles although I was sitting right behind Abdi in second place. I was sitting on the sidewalk and saw everyone go by. After like 25 guys passed I thought ‘I could still beat that guy’ and jumped back in. I finished 8th but I learned my lesson.
You ran a 3:55 mile at Icahn/NYC. Did you ever run the 5th Avenue mile?
Yeah. I did it in 2005. But I did this tattoo the night before [shows massive upper arm tattoo]. Three hours. I was so drained. But this guy had like a two month waiting list and the mile didn’t seem to happen that year due to sponsorship issues. Three weeks out they got a sponsor. No way was I gonna cancel my appointment! My arm hurt like hell, I could barely lift it.
Where did you finish?
I still finished 4th in 3:54, like two seconds back.
Is the tattoo guy such a legend?
I think he has his own place now.
Are you getting any more tattoos? What does the missus say?
She doesn’t care and at the same time doesn’t want me to get more. I don’t want her to get any tattoos. [laughs]
[Woman sneezes at the table beside us. Fam covers his face with his shirt.]
Are you scared about that generally?
Before the Olympics it was really bad. It comes down to one day. I got eight minutes to do my job. I used hand sanitizer every time I shaked someone's hand. When I fly I usually pull my sweatshirt over my head and sleep.
You finished 13th, right?
Yeah. I would have finished a lot better if I wouldn't have taken the lead. I had such a tough time breathing. The pollution really affected me. I knew that I was gonna slow down because of that. So I thought if I took the lead, I feel better because I am a front runner. I couldn't properly breath though. I think I could have made top10.
Fam is a very relaxed and open minded guy. From the interview he might seem intense, self centered and even cocky occasionally. Instead, he was humble, forthcoming in a very positive way and had no negative attitude. He appears to be a guy who loves what he is doing and puts 100% into it, always testing his and his rival's limits. Still, I sensed that he has a great variety of interests that he only surpresses for the moment to be the best he can be now. And do what he is best at:Run hard and fast.
If you want to see the Fam we all know from the media (I guess we kinda belong to the same circus now...), check out his stylish flash-website runfam.com. Pure stat fans might be happier here.
mzungo.org says "Thanks Fam!"
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